New Kariong Glyphs Evidence Fails to Excite

During the week our orb chasing friends at Wake Up World and the Strong circle of tin foil hat fanciers published their latest finding. 

Here was new evidence that would de bunk the hoax theories surrounding the Kariong Glyphs they claim.

A Statutory Declaration stating that a young lady had recalled as a 10 year old visiting the glyphs site in 1958 , intriguing but hardly earth shattering.

Part of the statutory declaration claiming the glyphs were sited in 1958

Lets have a look at:
http://wakeup-world.com/2014/02/02/1958-visitor-to-bambara-hieroglyphs-refutes-official-hoax-theories/


Bad Research 
" One of the most common hoax myth is the oft quoted tale of a ‘deranged Yugoslav’ who, in 1975, allegedly exited the ‘glyphs with a store-bought chisel in hand (minus a hammer), was then chastised by Gosford Council employee Alan Dash and sent on his way, unpunished, due to his limited intellectual capacity (the Yugoslav’s, not Dash’s). "

The above statement is not correct:
1. NPWS Ranger Neil Martin was the person who caught the " old Yugoslavian man " red handed and confiscated his chisel ( which is now in possession of the Gosford Historical Society ) in 1984 not 1975
2. Alan Dash first noticed the glyphs in 1975 after observing a man exiting the hole leading to the glyphs site, this man was living in the abandoned Gilford farmhouse ruins nearby.
He noted the appearance of more glyphs on returning visits over the next 5 years.

Source: Debunking the Gosford Glyphs by David Coltheart in Archaeological Diggings Vol 10 No 5 Oct/Nov 2003 Issue No 58

Quote " The remoteness of the site, "

Often the glyphs are referred to being in a remote location when in fact the glyphs site is located less then 1 kilometre from the town of Kariong and 5 km's from the town of Woy Woy and near Gosford , less than 100 kilometres from Sydney.
*The glyphs are located and the end of a unsealed road and only metres into the bush, within 100 metres there is the Lyre Trig marker point which has been in use since the 1800's.
*Up until 1999 access to public traffic was allowed into Bambara Road and you could park within 20 metres of the glyphs site , due to large amounts of illegal dumping the road was gated in 2000.
* From Woy Woy road it is only a 20 minute walk via Bambara Road to the site
* In the peroid between 1930 and 1974 , 3 families were living and farming along Bambara Road ( Cameron , Follan , Gilford )

Quote 

" Likewise, the obscure myth of the unnamed students from Sydney University (or a nearby college) engraving all of these hieroglyphs in either 1964 or 1984 – or any number of other dates that have at one time formed the ‘official’ story – always seemed improbable. "

Hardly anyone agrees with this theory , the whole idea is flawed and based on hearsay 
Archaeologist Dennis Gojack researched this theory:

"It should be made clear that in 1964 the Sydney University Department of Archaeology taught classical [Greek, Roman] and Near Eastern archaeology, which had an emphasis on Cyrus and the Middle East. There was a single newly appointed lecturer in Prehistoric Anthropology, Richard Wright, who had commenced a few years previously. The number of students enrolled was very limited and ancient Egyptian archaeology was not part of their curriculum, and neither was there any teaching in ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs or language. As a student within the Department from the late 1970s I never heard about any such activities taking place from either staff or former students. "

Source http://secretvisitors.wordpress.com/2012/10/22/kariong-when-were-the-glyphs-found/#more-811

Why even bother discussing this and the Sphinx memorial , it is common knowledge that these 2 things have absolutely nothing to do with the creation of the glyphs hoax site.
The author goes to some length to state that this new evidence refutes previous theories and yes it would if it could be verified 100% , it would put the earliest sighting of the glyphs back about 15 years but still not prove who did them.

Quote " Those who claim it a hoax can’t seem to get their stories straight "

I suggest that the editors of Wake Up World review their own research before making such fanciful claims

So what does this supposed new information reveal ?

More than likely the whole document has been faked as Strong and Co have been caught out on a few occasions faking archaeological finds at the site and nearby

Can we trust the faint memory of a 10 years old girl from over 50 years ago ? How accurate are her recollections ? How can she be sure of the actual year she supposedly visited the glyphs

Does it prove Egyptians carved the glyphs ? Not at all

Hans Dieter Von Senff - Ravings of a Madman

One of the delights of researching the Gosford Glyphs is running into the odd ( and I mean odd ) psuedo archaeologist / theorist / nutter along the way , they can range from the UFO believing space cadets , to crystal bearing new age enlightened ones ( usually women ) or modern day self styled Indiana Jones type fellas.
I first heard of this Von Senff person while poking about researching the glyphs story and later on after I published an article on my blog he left some funny comments typical of some of the rubbish that people leave on that page.
Now 83 year old Hans is not an Egyptologist , far from it , he lists it as a hobby.
The challenge has always been to Hans to provide some solid reliable scientific proof that the Egyptians carved the glyphs at Kariong , something to this date he has failed to do.
Now I'm talking signed letters from the big wigs here , you know the Museum of Antiquities in Cairo for a start , and all the museums in fact ( any ) something legitimate from real Egyptologists.
Not pages and pages of why he thinks the carvings are real and what they mean , this means nothing if no one will agree with you - and no one has to date.
Hans has produced tomes of fantasy titled " Forbidden Archaeology " and also " Egyptians in Australia which have gone largely ignored by professionals and ridiculed by anyone who actually sat down and waded through page after page of dubious speculations.
Hans has pestered various people from the Minister for Environment for NSW , NPWS , British Museum and god knows who else in his quest to no avail , I would love to see some of the replies he gets and of course he would never publish them anyway.

A recent discussion thread at the Unexplained Mysteries forum was a lesson for Hans not to go spouting off in public with ridiculous claims without being able to back yourself up.
One of the totally mind numbing claims by Hans is that I wrote the book , The Encyclopedia of Dubious Archaeology or at least the entry on the Gosford Glyphs on page 119 , a claim that despite being shown many times to be false , he persists with.

Truth is however, that Steve Spillard, aka. Woy Woy Steve declared on a website "Unexplained Mysteries", that he never wrote the article in the " Encyclopaedia of dubious Archaeology"p. 119-122, which I do not believe, because I have yet to see a writer, who writes under a bogus name (not a pseudonym) and assumes the character of Steven Spillard. I have yet to see an earlier claim as to: "Why he suddenly disclaimed his authorship to the fabricated fiction, that the Kariong Glyphs are a Hoax, as Spillard claimed in his Article." Now he claims, that it was never written by him, but some unknown person, to whom he sent the information.

The whole book was in fact written by Kenneth L Feder and he contacted me a while back asking for permission to use some photos I had online of the glyphs , I of course obliged.

I'm an archaeologist here in the US working on a one-volume encyclopedia
tentatively titled "Encyclopedia of Speculative Archaeology" which deals
with a host of archaeological fakery. I am including an entry on the
so-called Gosford Glyphs. I am writing to request permission to use one of
the photographs of the glyphs that appeared on your website
(http://home.iprimus.com.au/blazelands/woywoy/carvings.htm). (It's the image
at the bottom of the page, a close up of the glyphs).

Thanks for considering my request.

Ken Feder
Anthropology

This is a copy of that actual email from February 2010 - see blog entry here

I think poor old Hans got confused when he seen my name under the photo that they used , it only means the photo is mine , something most publishers do.

( Photo from page 120 The Encyclopedia of Dubious Archaeology by K. Feder )

Now silly old Hans has gone around the web quoting Ken Feders words as mine which is quite amusing and he goes to great lengths trying to disprove me in his recent pile of garbage " Egyptians in Australia " a 140 page paper he has conjured up on the glyphs story - what a sad and totally pointless waste of time and I wonder if he is mentally ill or just an elaborate hoaxer himself , surely anyone with enough intelligence to attain a PHD would be able to tell quite quickly that I am not the author.

Hans also thinks that I am the only person to call the glyphs story a hoax and that if he can shout me down on as many obscure internet forums as he can log into that I will go away but unfortunately that's where most people end up after not swallowing Hans pile of old cock and they do a little Google search on the glyphs and end up on my web pages !
Fact ,  I am not the first person to report the glyphs as a hoax , there are plenty of web pages doing that and some of them for a lot longer than mine.
I am not the first person to de bunk the glyphs mystery using a little research , people did that long ago as well , all I have done is collate a lot of websites into one readable account.
What I did do though is publish the first local account of the glyphs story using some background research on the history of the site , I also visited Gosford Library and viewed the files they hold on the glyphs including letters from Ray Johnson.
I was also the first person to contact the surveyor who first noted the glyphs in 1975 , Alan Dash and published details of that conversation.

I am not the first person to discovers holes in Hans theories , he was virtually torn to pieces on the Unexplained Mysteries forum and took off with his tail between his legs only to post more ravings on a little used forum just recently.

But you must agree from a logical stand point for us to agree with you, you would need to produce some pretty good hard evidence to support your case, as from what I have read posted by Steve, it would appear not only has your research been out gunned but its been undone and out matched, now Im not saying you have not put the hard yards as I call it into your research Im saying is lacking a certain aspect of proof.

One of the members from UM has put together a very informative look at the glyphs debacle and examines some of Hans' claims in detail , he has a bit more knowledge of Egyptology than myself and it was good to see another unbiased overview of the story , in fact this is the best review on the web to date.

Gosford Glyphs Hoax Part 1
Gosford Glyphs Hoax Part 2
Gosford Glyphs Hoax Part 3
Gosford Glyphs Hoax Part 4

For my articles on the Gosford Glyphs please look on the sidebar menu on the left and beware of old German nutters trolling internet forums ;)

New Website - Enter here 

Snake in the hills

A member of Elvina found this stone arrangement some time ago and recently found out you can see it on Google Earth quite clearly , so here is the Woy Woy Tip snake from space.
It is noted on a 2006 survey of the area as Aboriginal and I have no doubts that it is as there are stone arrangements on top of a lot of the ridges in this area.
Situated 800 metres east of the current land fill depot at South Woy Woy and at over 15 metres long , it's quite impressive.
It bugs me that people spend a lot of time pondering the Gosford Glyphs when great mysteries like this are in abundance.

 33°30'33.36"S  - 151°17'4.08"E

Gosford Glyphs 2010 Update

New Website - Enter here 

The discussion about the Egyptian Heiroglyphs have surfaced once again as the developers try to move into Bambara Road at Kariong in 2010
Many are happy to dismiss them as fakes and just as many believe they are real and many people believe those people...
Of course if they were real our history would have been re-written long ago , but rumours and people's beliefs cloud our judgement some times ( not all of us though ! )
Once the story of the glyphs reached the web it also garnered a new following of "new agers" and self declared experts and theorists , for which the carvings validated their beliefs in nice colour photographs.

Despite being presented with valid scientific proof and reports from a variety of experts , it seems some will reject all and continue with the myth.
Most of this seems to stem from a man named Ray Johnson who supposedly translated the glyphs and sent the results to a few experts overseas and the local authorities in Australia.
While we have copies of the letters he sent , we do not have any of the replies , so the translations have never been verified or acted upon.
Ray Johnson claimed he had written 4 volumes about Egyptian heiroglyphs and language and that it was accepted by the Musuem of Antiquities in Cairo.
In the letters I have Ray never states his qualifications other than the fact he is a researcher.
This all happened nearly 15 years after the NPSW , Gosford Council and Sydney University carried out studies and declared the work fake.

All the experts agree that the symbols are badly done and are probably carved by someone who was studying Egypt or was copying what he saw in a book.
So it is true some of the symbols actually are real and spell out words , this must not be confused as them being translated into the story as told by Ray Johnson
It also doesn't mean that they were carved by the Egyptians either , nearby dated Aboriginal carvings are around 250 years old and are much more eroded.

A property located within 60 metres of the glyph site existed from around 1929 , the owner was E.F Gilford who was so fascinated with the local Aboriginal carvings , that he wrote an article for the local newspaper in 1931.
E.F Gilford scoured the land around his home and recorded many sites unknown to anyone at the time , later in 1960 he was aided by a local researcher B. Pankhurst and they mapped and photographed every Aboriginal site in the Kariong area.
Remember Mr Gilfords property boundary ( in red ) was only 60 metres away from the glyphs site and he lived there for over 25 years.
2 other private holdings were in the area owned by Follan who had a pig farm and the Camerons who had a house and farm.
By that time the area had been extensively surveyed for roads , power lines , mineral and scientific explorations , the army in both wars and Lyre Trig was built just 120 metres away from the carvings.
With all that activity not one person or valid report exists of the glyphs prior to 1975
Parish maps of the area note the locations of Aboriginal sites but not the glyphs in every edition.

As the popularity of internet forums grew the topic of the glyphs arose on several sites , this brought the attention of Egyptologists like Dr Meltzer who was actually paid to examine the glphs via correspondence , while he agreed that the symbols spelt out names and words he never offered a full translation.
Later on as people informed him about the local history of the area and prevoius reports he began his own research into the background.
I note in his final posts he pleas for valid information on the status of the glyphs pre 1980's , but never gets a reply.
He is also sent a confusing letter from Ray Johnson offering to send him his translations , he remarks later on that he cannot agree with Ray Johnsons " archaic theory "

Private website owner A. Keating made a website based on the report on Ray Johnson findings by a Dr Gilbert.
Dr Gilbert also called the glyphs forgeries.
After that report was published online , Paul White who had help place Ray Johnsons story online and had a written an article , distanced himself from the whole affair.

On the Ancient Lost Treasures forum in 2004 a member ( Tom Walter ) contacted the Gosford History group and was told the carvings were done by a schoolboy in the 60's , the Elvina group has recently contacted members of that group who verified the story again in 2010.

Since 2007 all discussions involving Dr Meltzer have ceased , many sites have stories on the glphs and all use parts of the story from different parts of the web , no new reaseach has taken place since.

In October 2010 I personally contacted the first person documented to find the glyphs and spoke to him on the phone at length , Alan Dash worked as a surveyor for Gosford Council and discovered them in 1975 , he also witnessed them being created.
Read the full account here

To get a better picture of the story I've made a timeline with all relevant links included:


1825
- First land surveys carried out in Brisbane Waters

1923
- Woy Woy Road built

1929
- Gilford , Follan and Cameron purchase blocks at Bambara Rd
- Parish map of blocks here

1931
- Gilford writes article on nearby Aboriginal carvings
- Article here

1955
- Bob Cummins visits site and notes carvings are present but faint - rumour not confirmed ( see letter from R Johnson to Gosford Council 1997 )

1960's
- Students from Gosford High School carve/re carve/ add to glyphs - rumour confirmed by Tom Walter* in 2004 and Elvina group* in 2010 after contact with members of the Gosford Historical Group
1964
- University students visit site and carve/re carve/ add to walls - rumour not confirmed ( see letter from R Johnson to Gosford Council 1997 )

1975
- Council surveyor Alan Dash notes site
- Alan Dash notes site being added to - Read interview here

1983
- Article in Central Coast Express
- Mr David Lambert Rock Art Conservator of the Cultural Heritage Division of the NPWS visits site
- Pictures taken in 1983/1984 by the NPWS
- Photographs of the hieroglyphs were sent to Prof. NageebKanawati, head of the Department of Egyptology at Macquarie University, Sydney.
- Prof. Nageeb Kanawati replies and declares the carvings as fake

1984
- Ranger Neil Martin catches old Yugoslavian man carving at site
- Ranger Neil Martin notes additional carvings being added afterwards

1994
- Ray Johnson visits site with Dr Whitehouse and Yahn
- Ray Johnson sends letter to Dr Abou - Gazi Director of the Museum of Antiquities Cairo
- Copy of letter here

1996
- Paul White writes article for Exposure magazine Vol 2 No.6
- Copy of article here

1997
- Ray Johnson writes to Gosford Council
- Copy of letter here

1998
- A. Keating establishes contact with Dr Gilbert and creates website here
- Dr Gilbert denounces carvings as fakes
- Article here
- Paul White rejects his own story and agrees with the forgery theory
- Bambara site under threat from developers - letters of support from local Mp's

2001
- Hans-Dieter von Senff writes to Carmel Tebutt assisting the Ministerfor National Parks and Wildlife [Refschauge]
- Carmel Tebutt confirms carvings are fake based on NPWS study
- Carmel Tebutt confirms air shaft / underground chamber not present in 1983 inspection
- See post at Ancient Lost Treasures

2003
- Article written by David Coltheart in Archaeological Diggings Vol 10 No 5 Oct/Nov 2003 Issue No 58
- Article here

2004
- Tom Walters contacts Philippe Tabuteau of the Gosford Historical Group
- Philippe Tabuteau confirms carvings were done by persons known to him
- Dr Meltzer is contracted by John Anthony West to decipher the glyphs
- Dr Meltzer's post at Ancient Lost Treasures

2005
- Don Hitchcock maps writes article here

2007
- Dr Meltzer discusses the glyphs online at the Glyph Doctors
- Dr Meltzer receives information from Ray Johnson
- Dr Meltzer dimisses Ray Johnsons "archaic theory"
- Last post from Dr Meltzer here
2008
- Glenndining, Minto and Associates apply to build at Bambara Rd
- DA rejected by Gosford Council

2009
- Developers launch appeal in Lands and Environment court

2010
- Court hearing April - decision reserved to a later date
- Elvina group contacts Tabuteau family member
- Tabuteau family member suspects carvings were done by a pupil/s from Gosford High School in the 60's
- June - Land and Environment court rejects current DA by Glenndining, Minto and Associates
- Alan Dash confirms carvings done between 1975 and 1983 - Report here
- Blocks in the area are offered for sale again , Council does not buy them
- I am sent the original NPWS site photos taken in 1983 , after examination I found evidence of the glyphs being added to after the photos were taken - see article here

2011
- Single block sold to private purchaser
- Local protest group camps on site for 90 days in action against development proposals
- I contact the NPWS for information on the glyphs - letter here
- I contact Prof. NageebKanawati, head of the Department of Egyptology at Macquarie University, Sydney. - email reply here
- Glyphs featured on History channel documentary , Tony Robinson visits site. - video here
- Gosford Council appoints mediator to negotiate purchase of blocks along Bambara Rd
- Steven Strong and Dr Hans Dieter Von Senff enter Brisbane Waters National Park to conduct illegal archaeological studies and excavations at the glyphs site and illegally remove artifacts

2012
- Unemployed school teacher Steven Strong writes articles for New Dawn magazine and Indigenous Times
- Retired bus driver Hans Dieter Von Senff releases " Ancient Egyptians in Australia " 
- Gosford Council agrees to buy one of the blocks on Bambara Road for inclusion into the BWNP
- Fringe website Wake up World publishes Steven Strongs Kariong theories
- News article from Steven Strong about his Kariong theories is pulled down from the ABC website
 within hours of it's release

2013
- Glyphs site suffers from increased traffic , underground cavity which theorists claim is a " tomb "
is continually interfered with , NPWS fill in the cavity and post warning signs
- Steven Strong claims to find UFO carving close to the glyphs site , it turns out to be an Aboriginal
carving of a whale

2014
- New website created http://karionghieroglyphs.blogspot.com.au/


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TO THIS DATE NO ONE HAS BEEN ABLE TO PROVIDE SOLID SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE THAT THE EGYPTIANS OR ANY OTHER CULTURE VISITED KARIONG OVER 4000 YEARS AGO